How Improv Can Help Build Stronger Teams And A Stronger You, With Joel Zeff

Great teams don’t just happen—they’re built with intention, energy, and a little improvisation. J.R. Lowry sits down with Joel Zeff to talk about how improv techniques can fuel collaboration, innovation, and engagement in the workplace. From embracing the ta-da moments to making the right choices, Joel shares how humor and spontaneity can help create stronger teams that thrive under change and disruption. Whether you’re a leader, team member, or just looking to bring more fun into your work life, this episode will challenge how you think about success, culture, and communication.

Check out the full series of Career Sessions, Career Lessons podcasts here or visit pathwise.io/podcast/. A full written transcript of this episode is also available at https://staging.pathwise.io/podcasts/joel-zeff.

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How Improv Can Help Build Stronger Teams And A Stronger You, With Joel Zeff

My guest is Joel Zeff. Joel is a Speaker, Work Culture Expert, Improvisational Humorist, and Author. His interactive performances invite members of the audience to participate in improvisational exercises that illustrate Joel’s central message, that organizations and individuals should celebrate their successes to increase collaboration, productivity, passion, and innovation. In our discussion, we’re going to be covering Joel’s approach as a Keynote Speaker, the utility of improvisational techniques in the work world, his new book, Make the Right Choice: Lead with Passion, Elevate your Team, and Unleash the Fun at Work, and his broader career journey. Let’s get going.

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Joel, welcome. Recognizing that you are a comedian and an improvisationalist, I am a bit scared, probably mostly in a good way, as to where this episode’s going to go, but let’s get to it.

Thank you for having me, and I’m excited. You’ve already set the bar high. I’ve now got to be funny, and I’ve got to talk and have some good messages, so it’s a lot. I’m going to see if I can make sure I hit all those goals.

Celebrating Successes Every Day With The Tada Movement

I know you believe in the ta-da moment. When are we going to have our ta-da moment?

This is a ta-da moment. We’re together, we’re celebrating careers, and this is a ta-da moment just for being a guest on your show.

Let’s get to it. We’ve done our ta-da, explain the idea of ta-da and how you use it in your speaking and your work more generally.

It’s about celebrating these moments each and every day. We have great moments with our customers, team, and partners, and we don’t celebrate them. We think that’s part of our day. Maybe once a year, we get together, give out some pointy glass awards, and have a chicken dinner. We have to celebrate each and every day, and they’re ta-da moments. I say ta-da moments because when my kids were younger, everything was a ta-da. I’m sure for the readers, with their kids, it’s a ta-da.

They eat their cheese sandwich, we celebrate. “Ta-da. You ate the whole sandwich, buddy.” They throw a ball, “Ta-da. You did it.” Whatever we celebrate, they do more of. We build their confidence. It creates energy. You can see it in their body language. As adults, we forget how many of those moments we had each and every day, and we don’t celebrate enough. That fuels our passion, making us better communicators, leaders, and teammates. That’s what the ta-da is all about.

I think the closest we got with my kids was, “All gone,” when they finished eating whatever they were supposed to eat.

I’m sure you said, “Way to go,” or, “Good job,” when they did something. The ta-da, it’s like the magician. It’s a flourish, a conclusion, a big deal. I incorporated that in my presentations. I’ve done more than 2,500 events with all types of groups. We start every keynote with a ta-da. We get everybody to stand up, huge ta-da. Sometimes, people look around, unsure. I’m getting them out of their comfort zones. Sometimes, a few in the back will half-ass it. I have to point it out. We do it again, and people start gravitating toward it. They enjoy it.

People love that positive support. They love that energy because it’s fuel. By the end of the keynote, we do it again, and everybody’s excited. We create that energy, and when we talk about fueling our passion, that completely focuses on how we find success during change and disruption, how we become better leaders, communicators, innovators, and teammates. We need fuel and energy for all of that.

Two thousand five hundred of these things over the years, that’s a lot of stages and a lot of audiences. Other than the ta-da moment, what are the things that make your sessions different from your average run-of-the-mill corporate keynote?

The Power Of Improv

When I first started, I had no idea. There were speakers, speaker bureaus, and conferences. One of my first clients was Texas Instruments, and they knew I did improv comedy on the weekends. They said, “We know you do improv on the weekends. We’re having this executive retreat. Can you come up and play some of those improv games with us before dinner?”

It wasn’t like I just jumped at it. I didn’t go, “That’s awesome. Let’s do that.” It was, “Sure, I’m open that evening.” I took another performer with me, and we played some improv games. The audience loved it. More importantly, I loved it. The little light bulbs started flickering on. “Can I share this improv with other groups?”

What improv taught me, I was working at a theater in Dallas, performing four public shows a week, plus corporate shows. We were doing hundreds of shows a year, and improv was teaching me a great deal and I loved it. I was passionate about it. It was a true love. I wanted to share what improv taught me. As my presentations and my business evolved, the keynotes became that love letter to improvisation.

I bring people up on stage. We do an improv game, lots of fun, very entertaining, no matter who the audience is. Through that fun and laughter, we talk about the choices that improv taught me and what I’ve learned watching thousands of people play these improv games. How we find success during change and disruption, how we stay present and in the moment, how we help each other be successful, how we communicate, how we innovate, all these are choices that improv teaches us. Through the games, we have fun, we create energy, but we also talk about these powerful messages.

What are some of the things you can take back from these sessions that are relevant to your day-to-day work? I think you’re trying to get people to change their thinking about how they approach the day-to-day.

Here’s the cool thing. I’ll bring three people from the audience. We’ll play an improv game. For instance, in one game, I assign each person an emotion, and we’re going on an imaginary road trip. As the driver picks up each hitchhiker, we all take on that emotion. Maybe the driver starts happy. The first hitchhiker comes in and brings in sad. Both of them are now sad. All three are angry. Fourth, fear. We go in reverse order. It’s very funny, very entertaining, very engaging. What’s the message? Improv teaches us so much. It’s about creating opportunity and then matching it with positive support. When you put those two things together, it’s pretty amazing what people can accomplish.

I’m demonstrating this through the visual aid of the improv games. That’s my visual tool. The audience sees these choices being made in real-time with their peers, colleagues, managers, customers, and whoever’s in the audience. It hits home. People grab hold of that. They have a vested interest in what that person is doing on stage. They’re learning by watching. What they’re learning is creating opportunity and positive support, learning about being present in the moment, and what that means to our success as a leader and teammates. One of my favorite messages of improv is asking the question, “How do I help the people around me be successful?”

Answering it and acting on it. If my audience could just walk away with one thing, it’s to ask that question every day, “How do I help the people around me be successful?” The other great message I think improv teaches us is one about change, being prepared, open, and flexible. It also teaches us that when we’re present in the moment, we need to stay in the game, to not give up. It’s the only thing improv won’t let you do. You can make mistakes. I make mistakes every time I put a microphone on my shirt. I’m going to make a mistake. We have to embrace that. We can’t fear it.

We have to acknowledge it. That gives us the confidence to find our success. It’s a series of messages that improv teaches us. I want my audience, if they take away one thing, if they take away two things, what is that one message that’s going to hit home? Is it staying in the game? Is it being more present and in the moment? Is it being more open and flexible to change? Improv is a very accessible way to talk about these messages.

Finding Fun And Passion In The Workplace

Underneath it all, it’s meant to be fun. You make the point that work should be fun, but why is that so countercultural for people when it comes to what they do for a living?

In my book, I talk about one of my first jobs. I worked at a movie theater. I don’t know if you’ve ever worked in a movie theater, but you smell like popcorn all the time, and you pick up people’s trash, which is not fun. When I had that job, I was fifteen years old. I learned that even though you’re going to work hard, you’re going to do things like clean the popcorn machine and the hot dog machine and pick up people’s trash, that doesn’t sound like a lot of fun, but it’s your choice to make it fun.

If you choose to make it fun, you’re going to be better at your job. You’re going to have a better attitude, and that’s going to lead to success. I learned that at a very early age. I’ve been in a lot of tough jobs and tough situations. When I was a newspaper reporter, I covered crime, murders, and fires. I’ve been in some dark places and situations to cover the story. It’s how I approach it and what my attitude is. I have to have fun. Fun means lots of different things to lots of different people. Your fun is going to be different than my fun.

You have to figure out what makes you happy, fulfilled, and engaged, and grab hold of that. That should be your guiding star. If you’re not having fun, I don’t think you’re going to be at your best, as a leader, as an innovator, as a communicator. Whatever you do, you’re not going to be at your best. You can’t let stress win because what is going against fun is stress. They’re polar opposites. You don’t meet a lot of fun people who are stressed out. “I’m all stressed out, but I’m having a ball.” You just don’t meet them.

Not very often, at least.

Usually, they probably should be drug tested, I would say, JR. You’ve got to figure out what your fun is. Let’s go back. Remember math class? I’m physically unable to do math past adding and subtracting. When you go through school, someone’s going to have to teach you algebra and geometry, and they’re trying to get it to stick. It didn’t stick with me, and I didn’t need it at all in my entire life.

You meet people in class who, when they solve a math problem, that’s fun. That’s fun to them. That’s pretty exciting. It’s not fun to me, but it’s fun to them. That’s their fun. What is your fun? It’s not all about fun. It doesn’t mean just laughter and being silly and comedy. Fun is many different things. Solving a math problem, to some people, is fun. Reach out, figure that out, what you love, what’s going to make it fun, and that should be your guiding star.

It reminded me, I had a boss once, and we were working hard and trying to do some new things that were not necessarily going to be easy. I made a comment to him at one point. I’m like, “We’re busting our butts. We’ve got to figure out a way to make this fun. It needs to be fun for everybody.” His response was, when we had our team meeting, it’s like fifteen people in the room, two days later, he goes, “JR thinks we should be having fun. What does everybody else think?”

It was like he completely just mocked the whole idea of it. Message received, we’re not going to have fun in this job. What I did ultimately, and I don’t remember why the idea came up, Joel, but I bought this pinata. It was a blue elephant. It was not that big, maybe 18 inches, 2 feet tops. I presented this blue pinata to my team and said, “Basically, this pinata is supposed to signify fun. We ought to be having fun here.”

“Every time you forget about it, just remember the blue elephant sitting here. That’s here to remind us that we’ve got to keep this light enough so that it’s enjoyable to come do this every day.” We had that blue elephant for a long time. I need to find out what happened to the blue elephant because I’ve left the company, and the caretakers of the blue elephant have also left the company. God knows whether it survived to live to this day through the pandemic and everything. I don’t know.

You should probably purchase another one. You’ve got some white space back there.

I do have a lot of white space here.

You could put a blue elephant pinata back there.

I could hang it from the ceiling here. It would be something in the background.

I did an event once for a multifamily company, or they did apartments, multifamily housing. We were doing their event, and it was lunch or dinner. I think it was lunch. They had huge, different stations. Under one station was this huge sign that said Tacos. I made a joke about the taco sign during my keynote, this giant sign that said Tacos. I don’t know why I thought was funny. I think you would figure out that there were going to be tacos over there. I don’t know if you needed a big sign, but I remember making fun of the taco sign, and then everybody jumped on board.

During the pandemic, I was doing a virtual event for that same company, and the VP, the head of that office, on camera, he slowly puts up, he’s got the taco sign. It was one of the greatest moments of my virtual pandemic career. It was those little things, you just don’t know where they are, where that magic’s going to happen. Your blue elephant, you just don’t know.

When you attach them to a little fun, it just goes so far, and people want to join in. They want to be a part of it, and it energizes them. What that’s going to do is lead to success. A simple little blue elephant pinata probably gave a few people a smile or at least a reminder to bring the stress down, have a little fun, and we’re going to be better. We’re going to be better leaders, and that’s going to lead to success for us, our team, our customers, whoever.

You mentioned this person raising that sign up at a meeting long afterward. I’m sure you’ve had clients come back to you later on and talk to you about how you changed their view in some way. What do you hear most often from them that sticks with them?

Creating Memorable Experiences Through Fun And Laughter

I was dropping off a book to a client of mine, and she was talking about the event that I did for her company. She was telling somebody else there in the office, “Joel came and spoke, and we were doing ‘ta-da’ for months, just that ta-da.” I hear that all the time. I do another audience interaction where I make everybody in the audience put their hands up on their temples, like bunny ears. We do a thing, we say, “Bunny, bunny, bunny.” What that does is get everybody in the same space, that we’re all going to get out of our comfort zone.

We’re going to take some risks. We’re going to learn outside of our comfort zone. We’re going to be a little silly. That just breaks the ice. I hear my clients tell me, “We were doing ‘bunny, bunny, bunny’ all the time. We do bunny, bunny in the office. We do ta-da in the office. We played that game that you played with us in the office.” Having fun creates an experience, and you want to connect with people, create an experience with them, and they will create a memory.

When it’s fun and people laugh, they remember. They latch onto it. That little message is part of that. It’s on that molecule, on that fun molecule, and it’s ingrained. That’s why it’s so powerful. That’s why humor and laughter are so powerful. It’s like music. Music has a place in our memory; when we hear a song, we remember the memory and the moments that are associated with that song. Laughter and comedy are very similar. We create these memories, these moments, these experiences, with the times that we laugh, with the times that we’re having fun, and those connect us.

Somebody once drew for me this graph on a whiteboard, used in a different context, but the premise of it was I was doing consulting work, and his argument, he drew two lines, and he said, “This is what we’re doing every day. Every now and then, we’re going to pop up above the top line, and every now and then, we’re going to pop below the bottom line.” Those clients aren’t going to remember anything we do that’s in the middle.

They’re just going to remember the top things that popped above the line, and they’re going to remember the bottom things. Don’t have anything below the bottom line, for sure. You want to create enough of those top, above-the-line things that the client remembers this project in a way that’s favorable. Ultimately, you’re trying to create those, at least even fleeting, momentary peak experiences, that get people above that imaginary top line, making what you are working with them memorable for them.

I love the top-line analogy. Even if they walk out and they say, “What do you remember from Joel’s presentation?” and they say, “I had fun. I laughed,” I’m totally cool with that. There’s no better way to spend time together than through laughter and fun. It binds us. It connects us. It bonds us. What happens is we create this mutual respect, and that’s going to surface when we’re working together on a project, when we’re reaching and trying to achieve certain goals, and all that happens because we laughed and had fun together.

You’ve got your book in the background, Make the Right Choice: Lead with Passion, Elevate your Team, and Unleash the Fun at Work. Do you want to tell us a little bit about it?

The book is a love letter to my keynotes, and all the messages that I talk about in my keynotes are in the book in much greater detail. We talk about each message in a chapter, for instance, creating opportunity and positive support, staying in the game, being present in the moment, all these messages that we mentioned, how we find success during change and disruption. What I wanted to do was I wanted to make sure the book was fun and engaging. There are plenty of leadership and teamwork books that are college theses, with facts and statistics, and everything’s footnoted. It’s like a textbook, and there are plenty of books like that. I wanted to connect to the audience just like I do in my keynotes. I wanted it to be fun and engaging.

We talk about all these messages, but I do it in a very fun way. I try to incorporate humor. I try to tell funny stories. I try to have a whimsical look at some of these messages and some of the things that happen in our corporate lives that we should laugh at, like upside-down triangles and interlocking circles on PowerPoints that we can’t read because there are too many words. Making up strange words or phrases like circle back, or let’s send it up the flagpole, or paradigm shift. We can just keep going. We’re laughing and making fun of some of that, but doing it in a way that we’re also going to talk about these powerful messages, leadership, change, teamwork, communication, and innovation.

I wanted the book to be fun and engaging but also hit home on all these messages that I talk about in my keynotes with greater detail. At the end of most chapters, I’ll have a section called Quick Ideas, where I give a couple of ideas or action items for the reader to try to enact or to create that same success and focus on some of these messages.

You called the book Make the Right Choice: Lead with Passion, Elevate your Team, and Unleash the Fun at Work. What led to creating that title, and what’s the right choice you want us to make?

Most people know what improv is, some don’t, but there’s no script, no rehearsal, no plan. Everything’s happening in that moment right there. It’s about choices. We’re always trying to make the right choice. In improv, there shouldn’t be a wrong choice because if there’s no script or no rehearsal, you might make mistakes. You may make choices that don’t work, that aren’t funny, that don’t move the project along. In improv, we’re trying to make the right choice to be successful, to make the scene work. That’s where the title comes from.

What I want the the readers to do is to think about is their right choices. For instance, what is going to fulfill them and reward them? What is that choice? What is their choice in how they deal with change and disruption? Are they going to be prepared for change? Are they going to be open and flexible to change? Are you going to be more present and in the moment? Each chapter focuses on one of those choices. We’re trying to make the choice because, in the end, I want people to be fulfilled.

I want people to be rewarded. I figured out early on what my love and passion was, was improv, or, as my wife says, what I want in life is to make people laugh and tell people what I think. Somehow, I figured out how to create a career. I’m very fortunate that the universe, whatever invisible hand made that happen, has allowed me to share my love of improv, perform, make people laugh. I tell people what I think in the form of, “Here’s what improv taught me, and here’s what I want to share with you that, hopefully, will help you be fulfilled, passionate, and energized,” because that is how we should all work.

You made a point a minute ago about the idea that you have to be fully in the moment when you’re doing improv. Has doing improv helped you be more present in the moment in the rest of your life?

It’s definitely a very important lesson because improv is an art form. When you’re on stage performing, whether the scene is going awesome or it’s clunking along, you are forced to be present. You’re forced to be in the moment. The only thing you’re thinking about is the game, your teammates, and the objective. You can’t think about anything else. It forces you to be present in the moment. Here’s the thing, you’re at your best when you’re present in the moment. You’re at your best as a creative person, as a communicator, as a teammate. It’s a special place to be.

Joel Zeff: You’re at your best when you’re present in the moment.

When I started studying improv, taking workshops and classes, and then performing thousands of improv shows, it taught me how important it is to have that focus, to have that magic moment where you’re present. Can you be present every second of the day and in the moment? No, your brain would probably explode. Let’s pick our times, when we’re with our family, with our customers, when we’re focused on what’s important and what we need to do to succeed. When are these moments that we have to be present? When we are, we make that choice. We listen. We focus. We are present. We’re going to be at our best.

I agree with you. We live in a massively distracted world. Most of us sit on conference calls all day, now in video form, multitasking. Given that we have two screens, I have two screens in front of me for work, you can do your work on one and pretend you’re listening on the other one. It’s hard. I struggle with not letting the distractions creep in. I know I’m not as good or effective in what I’m doing when I start to drift off. It’s a good reminder, whether you do it through meditation or improv or whatever your mechanism is for learning how to increase your focus, it’s a massive difference-maker if you can stick to it.

Start small. For your readers, focus on the next call or on the next conference call. Focus on the next meeting, being present, not looking at your phone, being in the moment with who’s speaking and what they’re saying, and try to connect and see what happens. I think you’re at your best as a communicator or as a leader. That next project is another place where your mind forces you to be present. When I first sit down and start writing, I’m looking at different things, and I’m not focused. We keep at it, we keep doing it. All of a sudden, my mind locks in. Your fingers can’t type fast enough because you’re just so present in the moment.

You’re in a flow state.

That’s where you want to get. Don’t give up. Sit there, listen, and focus, and your mind will take over, and it will connect.

Staying In The Game And Working Towards Your Goals

It relates to what you also brought up about staying in the game. There is obviously a time in improv when somebody calls timeout, and that’s the end of it. Until that happens, you’ve got to keep going. You see so often in work, people check out or they spectate. They don’t want to get engaged. They want to let somebody else deliver the hard message. They want to let somebody else do the hard work. They want to let somebody else take one for the team, whatever the case is. In improv, you’re not going to be very popular if you just go into spectator, checked-out mode and let everybody else in the troupe figure out how to keep the thing going.

When you’re talking about that, staying in the game is my favorite message that improv taught me. You can make mistakes in improv. You can be loud. You can be funny. You can not be funny. The game will still work. The only thing the game won’t allow you to do is quit. You can’t give up. As soon as you give up, the game falls apart. To stay in the game, though, is hard. When we talk about staying in the game for your readers, for your work lives, what does that mean? That means you might have to learn something new to stay in the game. You might have to get out of your comfort zone.

You might have to work harder. You might have to find a mentor. You might need more training. There are questions that you have to ask to stay in the game, but the guarantee is you’re going to be successful, maybe not tomorrow or next week, but the guarantee is success will be there as long as you stay in the game.

I’m not saying quit your job, but if you quit the goal, the objective, the challenge, it’s over. If you’re a salesperson and you want to reach this client, and you send the information, you call, you email, “I can’t make the sale,” at that moment, you can give up, you can quit, and guaranteed failure. You can stay in the game and email them in a quarter, in a month, and keep that relationship, invite them to coffee, just keep going. As long as you’re in the game, success is a possibility. If you quit, you’re out of the game.

I loved how you were talking about staying in the game and participating. I remember when my son started playing baseball. He’s now a high school senior on the varsity team. I remember when he first started. At the beginning, when you’re 6 or 7, baseball can be boring if you’re sitting in the outfield. The ball doesn’t come very often, and a lot of kids give up and quit because they don’t think it’s fun.

I would always say to him, “Are you watching baseball, or are you playing baseball? The kids that aren’t having fun, they’re watching baseball. You need to decide, are you playing baseball? That doesn’t mean the ball is going to come to you every time, but you have a job every time on every play. You have something to do. Whether the ball comes to you or not, to play baseball, you have a job on every play, no matter where the ball goes.”

You have to back up somewhere, you have to move to a certain position, you have to help somebody, you have 2 or 3 things that you have to do. That’s the difference. Are you going to play baseball, or are you going to watch baseball? Same with your readers. Are you acting and working toward your goal, or are you just watching? If you’re just watching, you’re not going to be very effective.

You make a point about the importance of being open. That’s something, again, that you’ve got to be in an improv sketch, making sure that you’re being completely open. A lot of us struggle with change. I’m curious, what exercises do you run with your clients in these sessions to help give them some lasting comfort with the idea of uncertainty and ambiguity?

Making The Right Choices For Fulfillment And Reward

Improv teaches us to embrace change. Remember, there’s no script, there’s no rehearsal, there’s no plan. If you’re afraid of that change, if somebody’s going to say something that you weren’t expecting or somebody’s going to do something, you’re going to freeze. You’re going to lose your confidence, and you’re not going to be very effective. Improv teaches us to embrace that change, be confident in your skills, be confident in your abilities, and not be afraid to make a mistake. That’s what trips people up and freezes them. They’re afraid to make a mistake.

I was talking to someone about speaking and being a better communicator. What trips people up sometimes in speaking is they are afraid to make a mistake. They’re afraid they’re going to forget a word, not say something right, or stumble over a word. That freezes them, their confidence drops, and they’re not very effective. If you embrace the change and embrace the possible disruption, you rely on your skills, you become more confident, and you’re not afraid to make a mistake.

Two key messages. One, be prepared for change. Part of that embracing of change is to be prepared. Change is going to happen whether we like it or not. Most change is completely out of our control. We only control how we react to the change. That’s what improv teaches us. How are you going to react to the change? Are you going to be stressed, negative, and frustrated, or are you going to be positive, open, flexible, and supportive? That’s your choice in how you react to the change.

It’s how you’re prepared for change, making that choice, understanding that change is going to happen, and realizing that it’s how you react to that change. Finally, be more open and flexible to change. It doesn’t mean every change is going to be awesome. You have to learn, you have to grow, you have to work through it. If you have that sense that you’re prepared, that you choose how you react, and that you’re open and flexible, you’re going to find more success.

One of the games I play is called Know It All. It’s an old improv game. The audience asks questions, and usually, I have three people on stage, and they answer the question one word at a time. You can only say one word. You’re a three-headed person. To create a sentence, you can only say one word. “Why is the sky blue?” “The sky is blue because it rains,” whatever. We play the game, it’s funny. Sometimes they struggle, sometimes they do a great job. We talk about the choices that they made because they have no idea what word is coming before or after or what the direction of the sentence is going to be. They have no idea.

How do they make sentences that are creative, that are funny, that make sense, that have a subject-verb agreement? One, they were prepared for change. They knew they had no idea what was coming next, so that set their tone, their energy, and their approach. They were open and flexible to the word that was coming at them, and then they react.

They react to that word because they didn’t control the word that came before them, but they did control the word they said. It’s how they reacted to build the sentence and send it on to create that complete sentence. All of that is happening in that game. They’re open and flexible. They’re prepared for change. They’re reacting to change. They’re being great listeners.

It’s about getting people in that frame of mind and helping them figure out that they’ve got to be thoughtful about how they react. You had one of those moments of thinking about the end of your journalism career when you were working for the Dallas Times-Herald. Am I remembering it right?

The Magic Harmonica And Reacting To Unexpected Change

You’ve done your research, JR. I appreciate that.

I read your book.

Either way, I’m excited about it. I did have them. I was a newspaper reporter, and they called me one day and said, “The paper is closing. Come clean out your desk.” I had just joined that newspaper six months prior. I packed up and moved across the country for this job. Six months later, they said, “You did not make the best choice.” Basically, I jumped on board the Titanic. I knew the people who boarded the Titanic didn’t know they were on the Titanic. Within a week, I knew, very confidently, I had jumped on board the Titanic. I just didn’t know when it was going to hit the iceberg.

Six months later, it hit the iceberg. They said, “Come clean out your desk.” I left my one-bedroom apartment with little to no furniture, and I grabbed my harmonica. I don’t have any musical ability. I don’t play the harmonica. I owned a harmonica because I bought it at a college lecture, and I put it in my pocket. I don’t know why I did it because it wasn’t a normal occurrence.

I went down and started cleaning out my desk, and everybody had different emotions. They were angry, sad, confused. I surveyed the situation and found myself on the back loading dock. The media was there, covering the demise of the paper, TV stations, radio stations, and other newspapers. For some reason, I thought it was a great idea to pick up my harmonica.

I didn’t know you were going to ask me this question, or I would have had my harmonica. It’s in the other room. I played a bad blues note. People had that look on their faces. I went, “I lost my job. I got no money. They told me to clean out my desk. I just moved here six months ago. I got the newspaper blues.” I did that for a few minutes, improvising this blues song. The cameras, literally, it was like this sound. You could hear and see everyone going, “This is new.”

They came for the perp walk of people leaving with their boxes, which happens when a company shuts down, but they got the harmonica instead.

Walking out, crying. We got this idiot playing the harmonica. That night, we’re at a friend’s house, awake for the newspaper. Lots of people there. People had been there twenty years. I was a dumb kid. I had joined six months ago. I had no idea this was going to happen. I turn on the news, and there I am, playing the harmonica. To kick off the story of this hundred-plus-year-old institution of the city closing, here’s this stupid idiot kid. This was 1991. I was 22.

Imagine what this would have been like in the internet era.

It did go viral, for things that go viral in 1991. We’re at the party, and everybody turns their head. I was on two local stations. There’s a huge picture of me in the other newspaper across town. People kept calling me. The news would pick up the story in different cities. Someone from Atlanta would go, “Did I see you on the news playing the harmonica?” I was like, “Yeah, I did.”

At that point, you start leaning into it.

I was leaning into it, and I didn’t tell the story. I started telling this story during the pandemic. I don’t know why. In doing my virtual events, I started telling the story, and I would play the harmonica. I wrote this chapter. It’s my favorite chapter in the book. It’s what that magic harmonica taught me in that moment of disruption. It taught me to be confident in my abilities. It taught me that fun and whimsy should be my guiding light.

It taught me that how I reacted to change was my choice. I didn’t choose to lose my job, but I was going to choose how I reacted to losing my job. I was going to choose that emotion. It taught me many other things. I hope it will help people who also have these tough moments, maybe they have a magic harmonica or something like that magic harmonica, that they can hold onto. It can help them choose how they react to disruption and how they choose to deal with the situation.

The magic harmonica taught me to be positive, to see it as an opportunity, and to embrace the fun, the opportunity, and the situation. It guided me. I was out of work for probably six months after the paper closed. I would freelance and took different projects, but it taught me a lot. When I started telling the story during the pandemic, it helped me focus on the story. I connected with it when I wrote the chapter in the book.

I can imagine. During the pandemic, you’re looking for a different way to connect with people, doing it by video. It had to have been harder for you and harder for them to get the full effect relative to being in person. You’re also trying to say to people, “We’re all going through this crummy period, and think about pulling out your own harmonica and how you react to it and cope with it, as opposed to dwelling in the negative. Find the silver linings in this situation that, unfortunately, we all had to go through.”

The magic harmonica helped me a second time, thinking about it. It helped me during the pandemic. That’s why I started telling the story during these virtual events. I think it latched on, and it is a magic harmonica. I thought about it, and then I’m like, “He’s not going to ask me about the harmonica,” but you did. I still have it. It’s the same magic harmonica that I bought in college. I don’t remember buying it. I think I went to a lecture. I’m guessing it was a harmonica player, and somebody was selling harmonicas. I’m like, “That sounds like a good deal. Let me buy one,” because it’s nice, fancy. I think it’s German.

It’s a good harmonica.

I think all great harmonicas are German. That’s part of the story.

What’s ahead for you? Are you going to keep doing what you’re doing or have you got different things that you’re contemplating?

Dinner.

Good start.

Thank you. I have a lot of events planned, keynoting, sharing those ta-da moments, and bringing that fun and energy. I love doing that because I know sometimes I walk into a conference, and maybe it’s a group that’s had a tough year or tough time, or they went through a layoff, merger, acquisition, or tough time. Sometimes, in the day, I know that just in that one day, they’re going over goals or their forecasts, or someone’s talking about HR issues or whatever’s happening during the day. That can drain you. It’s my purpose to bring some fun and energy and to inspire my audiences to create that, to create their own energy.

for 2025, I think I have about twenty events scheduled. I’ll continue scheduling those events. Also, promoting the new book, Make the Right Choice: Lead with Passion, Elevate your Team, and Unleash the Fun at Work. Those are my two guiding lights for me. Personally, my daughter is graduating college. My son is graduating high school. I have a college graduate and a high school graduate in the same year. My wife and I are probably going to go into therapy because it’s going to be very emotional.

When we dropped our youngest off at college, we came home and walked into the house, and my wife disappeared. I found her locked in the laundry room, just bawling her eyes out. It’s a big adjustment.

I remember taking my daughter. I had an event in Galveston, Texas, and my daughter’s at UT in Austin, which is a few hours away. I was doing an event in Galveston. The plan was that I’m going to drive into Galveston, do my event, and then the next day, drive and meet my wife, son, and daughter to move her into the dorm. I’m pulling into the hotel in Galveston, and this song comes on the radio. It’s about fathers and daughters, and I lose it.

I’m in the parking lot of this hotel in Galveston, and I’m losing it. It got better. It’s part of the transition for them, and it’s a transition for us. You learn to adapt, and they go off to college, and each year, they’re just more mature, more adults, and doing their thing. It’s fun to see them become independent and self-sufficient, and it’s exciting for them. It’s going to be a different time, and now she’s graduating college. That’s going to be a transition, and he’s graduating high school and going off to college. It’s going to be a lot of transition, but it’s exciting.

Thanks for doing this. I appreciate it. It was good to get to know you, read your book, and learn a little bit more about some of the ways that improv can help you in the day-to-day life that most of us are living at work.

Sharing Improv And Energy With The World

Thank you. I love talking about the book and improv and sharing this, and thank you for the opportunity. I hope your readers go take a look and search my book. It’s available on Amazon and Barnes & Noble, and all great booksellers. You can also visit my website, which is just my name, JoelZeff.com, and connect with me. Thank you so much, JR. I appreciate the opportunity.

Thank you as well. Good luck with everything you’ve got going, dinner and beyond.

I appreciate it. Huge ta-da, JR.

Ta-da. Thanks, Joel.

—

It was fun having Joel on the show to talk about his work as a speaker and his use of improvisational techniques, his book Make the Right Choice: Lead with Passion, Elevate your Team, and Unleash the Fun at Work, and his broader career journey. If you’re ready to take control of your career, join the PathWise community. Basic membership is free. You can also sign up on the website for the PathWise newsletter. Follow us on LinkedIn, Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok. Thanks.

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About Joel Zeff

Joel Zeff is a speaker, work culture expert, improvisational humorist, and author. His interactive performances invite members of the audience to participate in improvisational exercises that illustrate Joel’s central message: That organizations and individuals should celebrate their successes to increase collaboration, productivity, passion, and innovation.

Since 1997, Joel has inspired audiences from Wells Fargo to Samsung to KPMG and even the IRS. Yes, the IRS. His spontaneous humor and vital messages have thrilled audiences for more than 25 years, and he has shared his insight at more than 2,500 events.